{"id":23296,"date":"2020-12-19T06:26:47","date_gmt":"2020-12-19T06:26:47","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/?p=23296"},"modified":"2020-12-19T06:31:45","modified_gmt":"2020-12-19T06:31:45","slug":"stock-prices-jay-powell-is-talking-through-his-hat","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/12\/19\/stock-prices-jay-powell-is-talking-through-his-hat\/","title":{"rendered":"Stock prices: Jay Powell is talking through his hat"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Daily COVID-19 cases in the US continue to climb, reaching 236,211 on Thursday 17th.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2020\/2020-12-19-us-covid.png?w=525&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"USA: COVID19 Daily Cases\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Unemployment claims jumped by 1.6 million in the week ending November 28, exceeding more than 1 in 8 of the total workforce (Feb 2020).<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2020\/2020-12-19-dol.png?w=525&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"DOL: Total Unemployment Claims, 28Nov2020\" \/><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.dol.gov\/ui\/data.pdf\">Initial claims under state programs<\/a> climbed to 935,138 (unadjusted) by week ending December 12, compared to 718,522 for w\/e November 28, while initial claims under pandemic assistance programs run by the federal government jumped to 455,037 compared to 288,234 for w\/e November 28.<\/p>\n<p>Further escalation of both daily COVID-19 cases and unemployment claims is likely before vaccine distribution achieves a wide enough reach to make a difference. A major obstacle will be public reluctance to get the vaccine shot:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p class=\"Component-root-0-2-62 Component-p-0-2-53\">As states frantically prepare to begin months of vaccinations that could end the pandemic, a new poll finds only about half of Americans are ready to roll up their sleeves when their turn comes.<\/p>\n<p class=\"Component-root-0-2-62 Component-p-0-2-53\">The survey from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research shows about a quarter of U.S. adults aren\u2019t sure if they want to get vaccinated against the coronavirus. Roughly another quarter say they won\u2019t. (<a href=\"https:\/\/apnews.com\/article\/ap-norc-poll-us-half-want-vaccine-shots-4d98dbfc0a64d60d52ac84c3065dac55\">Associated Press, December 10, 2020<\/a>)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<h2>Federal assistance<\/h2>\n<p>Further federal assistance may soften the impact of rising unemployment on the economy but <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/senatemajldr\/status\/1339702999837532161\">Senate leaders are yet to conclude a deal<\/a>. Both sides claim to want a deal but it seems unlikely that agreement will be reached before the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.abc.net.au\/news\/2020-12-03\/donald-trump-victory-rally-for-georgia-senate-runoff-elections\/12942452\">Georgia run-off elections<\/a> on January 5th. If the Democrats win both seats, and a Senate majority, they will not need to compromise. Unfortunately, large numbers of the least fortunate will suffer before then. Real leadership from the White House, needed to break the logjam, is sadly absent.<\/p>\n<h2>Jay Powell and stock prices<\/h2>\n<p>Jay Powell says he is relaxed about stock prices:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Stocks at record highs and bond yields not far from their historic lows are telling two different stories, but Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said he isn\u2019t worried about the disparity.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, the central bank chief said during <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2020\/12\/16\/fed-meeting-live-updates-watch-jerome-powell-speech.html\">a news conference Wednesday<\/a>, the low rates are helping justify an equity surge that has gone on largely unabated since the March pandemic crisis lows.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cThe broad financial stability picture is kind of mixed I would say,\u201d Powell said in response to a CNBC question at the post-meeting media Q&amp;A. \u201cAsset prices are a little high in that metric in my view, but overall you have a mixed picture. You don\u2019t have a lot of red flags on that.\u201d (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/2020\/12\/16\/powell-says-stock-prices-are-not-necessarily-high-considering-the-low-level-of-interest-rates.html\">CNBC, December 16, 2020<\/a>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>There is just one problem: bond yields are distorted by the Fed and do not reflect market forces.<\/p>\n<h3>S&amp;P 500 PEmax<\/h3>\n<p>If we take the S&amp;P 500 Price-Earnings ratio based on the highest trailing earnings (PEmax), this eliminates distortions from sharp falls in earnings during a recession. The current multiple of 26.69 is the second highest peak in the past 120 years, exceeded only by the Dotcom bubble. By comparison, peaks for the 1929 stock market crash (Black Friday) and 1987 (Black Monday) both had earnings multiples below 20.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2020\/2020-12-19-spx-pemax.png?w=525&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"S&amp;P 500 PE of Maximum Trailing Earnings (PEmax)\" \/><\/p>\n<h3>Payback model<\/h3>\n<p>If we use our <a href=\"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/payback-period\/\">payback model<\/a>, we arrive at a fair value estimate of 2169.50 for the S&amp;P 500 based on:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>projected earnings for the next four quarters as provided by S&amp;P;<\/li>\n<li>a long-term growth rate of 5%, equal to nominal GDP growth in recent years; and<\/li>\n<li>a payback period of 12 years, normally used for the most stable companies (with a strong defensive market position).<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>The LT growth rate required to match the current index value (3709.41) is 14.0%. The only time such a growth rate was achieved, post WWII, is in the 1980s, when inflation was spiraling out of control.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2020\/2020-12-19-gdp-cpi.png?w=525&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"Nominal GDP &amp; Inflation (CPI)\" \/><\/p>\n<h2>Conclusion<\/h2>\n<p>Stock prices are in a bubble of epic proportions. Risk is elevated and we are likely to witness a major collapse in prices in 2021 unless inflation spikes upwards as in the 1970s to early 1980s.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Daily COVID-19 cases in the US continue to climb, reaching 236,211 on Thursday 17th. Unemployment claims jumped by 1.6 million in the week ending November 28, exceeding more than 1 in 8 of the total workforce (Feb 2020). Initial claims under state programs climbed to 935,138 (unadjusted) by week ending December 12, compared to 718,522 &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/12\/19\/stock-prices-jay-powell-is-talking-through-his-hat\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;Stock prices: Jay Powell is talking through his hat&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mo_disable_npp":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[46,3761,34],"tags":[854,1828,4641,4640,3766,3010],"class_list":["post-23296","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-deficit-spending-employment","category-gdp-and-activity","category-us-canada-countries-regions","tag-cpi","tag-inflation","tag-payback-model","tag-pe-of-highest-trailing-earnings","tag-pemax","tag-sp-500"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Stock prices: Jay Powell is talking through his hat - the patient investor<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Stock prices: Jay Powell is talking through his hat - the patient investor\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Daily COVID-19 cases in the US continue to climb, reaching 236,211 on Thursday 17th. Unemployment claims jumped by 1.6 million in the week ending November 28, exceeding more than 1 in 8 of the total workforce (Feb 2020). 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He co-founded Incredible Charts and writes the popular Trading Diary and Patient Investor newsletters. Using a top-down approach, Colin identifies key macro trends in the global economy before evaluating selected opportunities using a combination of fundamental and technical analysis. Focusing on interest rates and financial market liquidity as primary drivers of the economic cycle, he warned of the 2008\/2009 and 2020 bear markets well ahead of actual events. He founded PVT Capital (AFSL No. 546090) in May 2023, which offers investment strategy and advice to wholesale clients.","sameAs":["https:\/\/facebook.com\/people\/The-Patient-Investor\/61572934660810\/","https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/colin_thepatientinvestor","https:\/\/au.linkedin.com\/in\/colintwiggs"],"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/author\/investor\/"}]}},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p9tQ4n-63K","jetpack_likes_enabled":false,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":23883,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2021\/01\/29\/usa-flattening-the-curve\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":0},"title":"USA: Flattening the curve","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"January 29, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"Daily COVID-19 cases in the US have almost halved from their early January peak of 300,000. And daily deaths are starting to level off as the vaccine roll-out takes effect. Initial jobless claims declined slightly to 847,000 for the week ended January 23rd, compared to 927,000 for w\/e January 9th.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Deficit Spending &amp; Employment&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Deficit Spending &amp; Employment","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/economy\/deficit-spending-employment\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":23972,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2021\/02\/06\/usa-sales-up-daily-covid-19-cases-down-but-jobs-still-scarce\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":1},"title":"USA: Sales up, daily COVID-19 cases down but jobs still scarce","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"February 6, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"Daily new COVID-19 cases in the US are clearly falling as the vaccine roll-out takes effect. But daily deaths are still rising and may take another few weeks to level off. January payroll figures show the economic recovery has stalled, with total jobs contracting by 6.08% compared to January 2020.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Banks &amp; Interest Rates&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Banks &amp; Interest Rates","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/economy\/the-fed-banks-interest-rates\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":21128,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/07\/31\/gdp-and-initial-claims-warn-of-slow-recovery\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":2},"title":"GDP and initial claims warn of slow recovery","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"July 31, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"Real GDP fell -9.5%, on a year-on-year basis, for the second quarter 2020. The worst recorded contraction in the US since the Great Depression of the 1930s. Initial unemployment claims stepped up to 1.434 million for the week ending July 25th, warning of a protracted recession. Continued claims are also\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Deficit Spending &amp; Employment&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Deficit Spending &amp; Employment","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/economy\/deficit-spending-employment\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":20886,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/07\/03\/jobs-up-but-no-v\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":3},"title":"Jobs up but no &#8220;V&#8221;","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"July 3, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"The annual change in non-farm payroll improved to -8.7% for the 12 months ended June 2020. A sizable improvement as the economy re-opens. Initial jobless claims, however, remain high at 1.427 million for the week ending June 27. Of greater concern is the level of continued unemployment claims: 17.92 million\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Deficit Spending &amp; Employment&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Deficit Spending &amp; Employment","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/economy\/deficit-spending-employment\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":21021,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/07\/18\/bearish-divergence-warns-of-tech-stock-retracement\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":4},"title":"Bearish divergence warns of tech stock retracement","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"July 18, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"The US recorded more than 75,000 new COVID19 cases on July 16th. The CCP must be smiling behind their masks after successfully containing last month's outbreak in Beijing. Source JHU CSSE Technology stocks have screamed upwards despite the chaos, but bearish divergence on Twiggs Money Flow now warns of selling\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Stock Markets&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Stock Markets","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/stock-markets\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":21401,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2020\/09\/05\/rapid-recovery-or-prolonged-depression\/","url_meta":{"origin":23296,"position":5},"title":"Rapid recovery or prolonged depression?","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"September 5, 2020","format":false,"excerpt":"US unemployment fell to 8.4% in August. Annual change in non-farm payroll recovered to -6.98%. Initial claims declined to 881,000. But that excludes Pandemic Unemployment Insurance (PUA) introduced under the CARES Act. PUA initial claims climbed to 759,482 for the week ended August 29, compared to 524,986 two weeks earlier.\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;US &amp; Canada&quot;","block_context":{"text":"US &amp; Canada","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/countries-regions\/us-canada-countries-regions\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23296","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=23296"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23296\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":23304,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/23296\/revisions\/23304"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=23296"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=23296"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=23296"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}