{"id":11645,"date":"2015-03-15T21:13:40","date_gmt":"2015-03-16T01:13:40","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/goldstocksforex.com\/?p=11645"},"modified":"2015-03-15T21:13:40","modified_gmt":"2015-03-16T01:13:40","slug":"the-catch-22-of-energy-storage-on-line-opinion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2015\/03\/15\/the-catch-22-of-energy-storage-on-line-opinion\/","title":{"rendered":"The Catch-22 of energy storage | On Line Opinion"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>John Morgan questions whether wind and solar are viable energy sources when one considers energy returned on energy invested (EROEI).<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>There is a minimum EROEI, greater than 1, that is required for an energy source to be able to run society.  An energy system must produce a surplus large enough to sustain things like food production, hospitals, and universities to train the engineers to build the plant, transport, construction, and all the elements of the civilization in which it is embedded. For countries like the US and Germany, Wei\u00dfbach et al. estimate this minimum viable EROEI to be about 7&#8230;&#8230; <\/p>\n<p>The fossil fuel power sources we\u2019re most accustomed to have a high EROEI of about 30, well above the minimum requirement.  Wind power at 16, and concentrating solar power (CSP, or solar thermal power) at 19, are lower, but the energy surplus is still sufficient, in principle, to sustain a developed industrial society.  Biomass, and solar photovoltaic (at least in Germany), however, cannot.  With an EROEI of only 3.9 and 3.5 respectively, these power sources cannot support with their energy alone both their own fabrication and the societal services we use energy for in a first world country.<\/p>\n<p><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter\" width=\"500\" height=\"389\" title=\"EROEI with and without storage\" alt=\"EROEI with and without storage\" src=\"https:\/\/bravenewclimate.files.wordpress.com\/2014\/08\/morganesfig1.jpg?resize=500%2C389\" \/><\/p>\n<p>Energy Returned on Invested, from Wei\u00dfbach et al.,1 with and without energy storage (buffering).  CCGT is closed-cycle gas turbine.  PWR is a Pressurized Water (conventional nuclear) Reactor.  Energy sources must exceed the \u201ceconomic threshold\u201d, of about 7, to yield the surplus energy required to support an OECD level society.<\/p>\n<p>These EROEI values are for energy directly delivered (the \u201cunbuffered\u201d values in the figure).  But things change if we need to store energy.  If we were to store energy in, say, batteries, we must invest energy in mining the materials and manufacturing those batteries.  So a larger energy investment is required, and the EROEI consequently drops&#8230;[to the buffered level].<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Read more at <a href='http:\/\/www.onlineopinion.com.au\/view.asp?article=17160'>The Catch-22 of energy storage &#8211; On Line Opinion &#8211; 10\/3\/2015<\/a>.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>John Morgan questions whether wind and solar are viable energy sources when one considers energy returned on energy invested (EROEI). There is a minimum EROEI, greater than 1, that is required for an energy source to be able to run society. An energy system must produce a surplus large enough to sustain things like food &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2015\/03\/15\/the-catch-22-of-energy-storage-on-line-opinion\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;The Catch-22 of energy storage | On Line Opinion&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_mo_disable_npp":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[44,5,14,29],"tags":[723,1243,1271,1516,1764,2513,3173,3690],"class_list":["post-11645","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-crude-oil-natural-gas","category-economy","category-interests","category-the-big-picture","tag-coal","tag-energy-returned-on-energy-invested","tag-eroei","tag-gas-turbine","tag-hydroelectric","tag-nuclear","tag-solar","tag-wind"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>The Catch-22 of energy storage | On Line Opinion - the patient investor<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Catch-22 of energy storage | On Line Opinion - the patient investor\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"John Morgan questions whether wind and solar are viable energy sources when one considers energy returned on energy invested (EROEI). There is a minimum EROEI, greater than 1, that is required for an energy source to be able to run society. 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We have taken a deep look at Gazprom's major storage sites in Germany (Katharina, Jemgum, Redhen and Etzel), and were almost shocked by the severity of the issue. Current inventories will run frighteningly close to zero\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Crude Oil &amp; Natural Gas&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Crude Oil &amp; Natural Gas","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/gold-commodities\/crude-oil-natural-gas\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31010,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2022\/02\/16\/energy-the-coming-crisis\/","url_meta":{"origin":11645,"position":1},"title":"Energy: The coming crisis","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"February 16, 2022","format":false,"excerpt":"The real currency of our global economy is energy -- not the US Dollar or Gold. We often attribute achievements of the past century to man's ingenuity but how far would we have got without energy? The chart below shows the growth in global energy consumption over two centuries. Imagine\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Critical Materials&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Critical Materials","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/gold-commodities\/critical-materials\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Global Energy Use","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2022\/global-energy-substitution.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2022\/global-energy-substitution.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2022\/global-energy-substitution.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":44359,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2023\/09\/29\/nuclear-or-renewables\/","url_meta":{"origin":11645,"position":2},"title":"Nuclear or renewables?","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"September 29, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"Fossil fuels were the source of 83.7% of energy produced in the USA for the first half of 2023, compared to 7.8% for nuclear and 8.4% for renewables. Take a closer look at renewables and 5.0% of the total comes from biomass -- wood and biofuels like ethanol. Solar contributes\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Nuclear Energy &amp; Uranium&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Nuclear Energy &amp; Uranium","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/gold-commodities\/uranium\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"US Energy Sources","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-09-28-nuclear-fossil-renewables.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-09-28-nuclear-fossil-renewables.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-09-28-nuclear-fossil-renewables.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-09-28-nuclear-fossil-renewables.png?resize=700%2C400&ssl=1 2x"},"classes":[]},{"id":10561,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2014\/08\/06\/solar-and-wind-power-more-expensive-than-thought\/","url_meta":{"origin":11645,"position":3},"title":"Solar And Wind Power More Expensive Than Thought","author":"ColinTwiggs","date":"August 6, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"A new paper from Charles Frank an economist at the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank, argues that wind and solar power are not economically viable: The paper examined four kinds of carbon-free energy \u2013 solar, wind, hydroelectric and nuclear \u2013 as well as low-carbon gas generation, and compared them\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Interests&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Interests","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/interests\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":2651,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2011\/12\/15\/sun-powered-schools-save-30m\/","url_meta":{"origin":11645,"position":4},"title":"Sun-Powered Schools Save $30M","author":"ColinTwiggs","date":"December 15, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Hawaii Pacific Solar will install solar panels at [15 Kauai schools in Hawaii] at no cost to the state. The department will buy electricity generated by the panels from Hawaii Pacific Solar [at] a rate of about 16.9 cents per kilowatt hour. The rate will rise to 28 cents an\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Other&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Other","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/other\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":44537,"url":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/2023\/10\/11\/be-wary-of-renewables\/","url_meta":{"origin":11645,"position":5},"title":"Why we should be wary of renewables","author":"Colin Twiggs","date":"October 11, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"The chart below highlights the divergence of iShares Clean Energy ETF (ICLN - blue), representing renewable energy, from S&P 500 Energy SPDR (XLE - green) and Sprott Physical Uranium Trust (SRUUF - black). Support for nuclear is growing, while the appeal of renewables investment is declining. Why would support for\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Australia &amp; NZ&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Australia &amp; NZ","link":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/category\/countries-regions\/australia-nz-countries-regions\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Sprott Uranium Fund (SRUUF), S&P 500 Energy SPDR (XLE), iShares Renewable Energy ETF (ICLN)","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-10-09-energy.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-10-09-energy.png?resize=350%2C200&ssl=1 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.incrediblecharts.com\/images\/2023\/2023-10-09-energy.png?resize=525%2C300&ssl=1 1.5x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11645","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=11645"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11645\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=11645"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=11645"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/thepatientinvestor.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=11645"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}